Spraying & paint - advice please!

[luke83g]

Hi,

 

Ive been given a new bumper (in primer) for my Escort and want to spray this in pepper red metallic. At the same time I also want to sand and repaint the rear bumper to get rid of some small car parking scuffs.

 

I have a friend who has a compressor and paint gun. If have the following questions and hope some of you may be able to answer!

 

1. Is there more than one shade of pepper red (I have a 2000 Escort finesse)

2. Do I need thinners or hardeners to mix into the 2 pack paint before spraying

3. How much paint will I need for 2 bumpers

4. How much lacquer do I need?

4. Any tips / guidance !

 

many many thanks ! Luke

[lee grout]

Hi,

 

Ive been given a new bumper (in primer) for my Escort and want to spray this in pepper red metallic. At the same time I also want to sand and repaint the rear bumper to get rid of some small car parking scuffs.

 

I have a friend who has a compressor and paint gun. If have the following questions and hope some of you may be able to answer!

 

1. Is there more than one shade of pepper red (I have a 2000 Escort finesse)

2. Do I need thinners or hardeners to mix into the 2 pack paint before spraying

3. How much paint will I need for 2 bumpers

4. How much lacquer do I need?

4. Any tips / guidance !

 

many many thanks ! Luke

Yes 2 pack needs thinners and hardener. I 'think' its 2-1 ratio (colour to hardener) then 10-15% thinners.

Think there may be a few shades with very slight differences. A paint supplier could match it best though.

I'd buy a litre. Gives you left overs for future repairs.

I spray canned my old aftermarket bumpers pepper red from cans. Came out well but make sure you use a black basecoat 1st. Not red primer or whatever stated in halfrauds. If you don't then the final colour will be to light.(take a look at scottybo's project, he had this.) also to clarify this, I've wet sanded my pepper red boot for same reasons as you and it has a dark base colour before the red!

If you laquer

via cans then id say 3 would suffice for both bumpers. Thats 300ml cans. Otherwise a litre worth of laquer for the spray gun. That includes hardener!

Andybo or sleeman can confirm if this is correct as they spray as a trade. I just do it as hobby lol.

Edited June 19, 2013 by lee grout

[SLEEMAN]

i'd avoid 2 pack paint whilst spraying in outside conditions as the paint contains poisonous isocyanides plus the paint will never dry if you haven't got an infra red lamp or a 60 degree low bake oven!

 

a good vehicle paint suppliers would mix to match the colour of your car as they have all the swatch cards and spray out cards for each shade.

 

waterbase paint is the best to go for but it is expensive stuff, so the next best thing would be cellulose it has the characteristics of waterbase but with the nasty smell of thinners! so best get a suitable mask if you are using a proper spray gun! the cellulose paint dries quickly and you can force dry it with a hairdryer etc.

 

as for the clear coat I would recommend the stuff that us smart repairers use which is an air dry clear coat plus if you are only gonna be ordering one litre tin then I would recommend getting fast hardener and fast thinners to go with it that should dry it quickly if not then you will be an accelerator in the mix which is called rocket. again its expensive stuff and to only use it once in one bottle is a bit useless.

 

if this seems like it will add up more and more I would advise going to a small time bodyshop where they can cut a deal with you. do a cash deal as that can usually remove the vat. so cheaper!

Edited June 19, 2013 by SLEEMAN

[luke83g]

This is fantastic advice - thank you both very much appreciated!

[Escort Si-130]

I have painted 2 pack paint outdoors before and it dries very quickly. Although, always put indoors as night has dew and this could cloud it over.

 

i'd avoid 2 pack paint whilst spraying in outside conditions as the paint contains poisonous isocyanides plus the paint will never dry if you haven't got an infra red lamp or a 60 degree low bake oven!

 

a good vehicle paint suppliers would mix to match the colour of your car as they have all the swatch cards and spray out cards for each shade.

 

waterbase paint is the best to go for but it is expensive stuff, so the next best thing would be cellulose it has the characteristics of waterbase but with the nasty smell of thinners! so best get a suitable mask if you are using a proper spray gun! the cellulose paint dries quickly and you can force dry it with a hairdryer etc.

 

as for the clear coat I would recommend the stuff that us smart repairers use which is an air dry clear coat plus if you are only gonna be ordering one litre tin then I would recommend getting fast hardener and fast thinners to go with it that should dry it quickly if not then you will be an accelerator in the mix which is called rocket. again its expensive stuff and to only use it once in one bottle is a bit useless.

 

if this seems like it will add up more and more I would advise going to a small time bodyshop where they can cut a deal with you. do a cash deal as that can usually remove the vat. so cheaper!

[SLEEMAN]

Are you sure it's the same 2 pack paint I'm thinking of and not the cellulose or acrylic paint you can buy nowadays? As I painted an old triumph spitfire bootlid in solid rover Delph blue, trust me when I say that's proper 2 pack paint as it clogged up my filters in my full face mask after spraying it! They were blue! And we had to leave it for 30 days as I don't have an oven as the paint was still soft! Even had to use three small infra reds on it from time to time!

[bongo]

2 k dries by evaporation doesn't it,i painted my wheels in 2k and they were dry in 24 hours,was about 24 degrees that day.

[etrebus]

Are you sure it's the same 2 pack paint I'm thinking of and not the cellulose or acrylic paint you can buy nowadays? As I painted an old triumph spitfire bootlid in solid rover Delph blue, trust me when I say that's proper 2 pack paint as it clogged up my filters in my full face mask after spraying it! They were blue! And we had to leave it for 30 days as I don't have an oven as the paint was still soft! Even had to use three small infra reds on it from time to time!

sounds like a synthetic paint as that takes a while to go off

 

2 k dries by evaporation doesn't it,i painted my wheels in 2k and they were dry in 24 hours,was about 24 degrees that day.

2k goes off by chemical reaction thats why you add a hardener i'm sure it would go off even under water

[demented]

Yeah, I've sprayed 2k in a non heated garge during the Uk's more traditional summers without issues.

Also carried out spot repairs outside, allowed to air dry, again without issues.

 

More important to allow paint solvents to escape between costs, (flash off).

 

I normally touch an area of masking tape thats covered with over spray, if tacky/sticky, I apply the next coat.

 

I believe baking, speeds up the paint process for bodyshops, paint completely hardens.

 

Otherwise, although touch dry, pressing hard on freshly applied air dried 2k paint after a day or two may leave an indentation.

 

It's also very important to use an air fed mask and ensure the compressor suppying the mask is not in the same area where paint spraying is being carried out.

 

 

[SLEEMAN]

Are you sure it's the same 2 pack paint I'm thinking of and not the cellulose or acrylic paint you can buy nowadays? As I painted an old triumph spitfire bootlid in solid rover Delph blue, trust me when I say that's proper 2 pack paint as it clogged up my filters in my full face mask after spraying it! They were blue! And we had to leave it for 30 days as I don't have an oven as the paint was still soft! Even had to use three small infra reds on it from time to time!

sounds like a synthetic paint as that takes a while to go off

 

2 k dries by evaporation doesn't it,i painted my wheels in 2k and they were dry in 24 hours,was about 24 degrees that day.

2k goes off by chemical reaction thats why you add a hardener i'm sure it would go off even under water

 

synthetic not sure, but its a direct gloss 2 pack paint mixed with hardener and I used a fast hardener if I used a normal or slow one it would have taken forever to dry lol but the tech sheets did say the paint that was supplied is best to be baked in an 60 degree oven.

 

any paints that only require thinners isn't two pack. but they will dry quick.

 

hardener and thinners is definitely two pack, usually hardeners are only required, thinners can be added to thin it down to the painters requirements or viscosity to go through the gun better

[Andyb0127]

Are you sure it's the same 2 pack paint I'm thinking of and not the cellulose or acrylic paint you can buy nowadays? As I painted an old triumph spitfire bootlid in solid rover Delph blue, trust me when I say that's proper 2 pack paint as it clogged up my filters in my full face mask after spraying it! They were blue! And we had to leave it for 30 days as I don't have an oven as the paint was still soft! Even had to use three small infra reds on it from time to time!

sounds like a synthetic paint as that takes a while to go off

 

2 k dries by evaporation doesn't it,i painted my wheels in 2k and they were dry in 24 hours,was about 24 degrees that day.

2k goes off by chemical reaction thats why you add a hardener i'm sure it would go off even under water

 

synthetic not sure, but its a direct gloss 2 pack paint mixed with hardener and I used a fast hardener if I used a normal or slow one it would have taken forever to dry lol but the tech sheets did say the paint that was supplied is best to be baked in an 60 degree oven.

 

any paints that only require thinners isn't two pack. but they will dry quick.

 

hardener and thinners is definitely two pack, usually hardeners are only required, thinners can be added to thin it down to the painters requirements or viscosity to go through the gun better

From what your saying mate, sounds very similar to DuPont 5035 2k solid. It had to baked be used if you air dry it yiu would be looking at around six weeks before it had cured.

[Andyb0127]

As mentioned when laquer has hardner/activator added to it, its a chemical reaction. Thinners is only added to change the viscosity of the paint, but now alot of laquers are HS (high solids) which do not have thinners added, as to use them its one very light coat, followed by a full wet coat, which will give the same micron build as conventional MS (medium solds) laquer, which is why the newer HS laquers will look more orange peely because there thicker.

Yes laquer will air dry, depending in which hardner you use. But you need to bear in mind alot if the new HS laquers are designed to be force dried in a spraybooth. When a spraybooth is on bake cycle the temperature is set accordingly to what it needs to be, as its not the heat in the oven that dries it, it will be the panel temperature. So setting a bake cycle at 60 temperature and 30 mins won't really work. Takes your oven five mins to get to working temperature so that only a twenty five minute bake cycle, and you'll be lucky if the panel temp on the cat hits forty. Our ovens we had sensors we attached to the car and a meter to tell us how hot the panel was then we set the temp accordingly, to what our data sheet said for the bake cycle. And another to remember is the faster the hardner/activator you use the more you will get a slight drop in gloss levels, don't be tempered to add rocket/drying accelerators either unless you know how to use them, as get it wrong and you'll end up with Matt laquer.

[SLEEMAN]

Hmmm DuPont maybe yes or no as the suppliers where I got it from only stock ppg and prospray but still took fricken ages!

[luke83g]

When spraying with 2k do you use an air fed mask or a non air fed disposable filtered mask?

[SLEEMAN]

best for air fed as I said most 2k paints contain poisonous isocyanides. but if you can only afford a normal one make sure you buy full overalls nitrile gloves and safety glasses as your skin can absorb anything that you spray so the more protection you have on the better for your health