2 litre conversion

[swebber23]

Looking at geeting a 2 litre conversion done, i understand about swapping sump, flywheel etc but the bit i am having problems with is ecu and pats.

 

I understand that you need a non pats ecu ie dale, desk, dewy but the bit i dont understand is does it just plug straight in? or will the keys need coding, i have tried reading the sticky but it doesnt make that much sense.

 

The car it is going into is a 1.8 1997 mk6 escort si.

 

Another bit that has confused me is that if my car has PATS installed if i just switch ecu to a non pats one, what will this mean?

 

I did look into megasquirt but i need some more information on this.

[Stu]

There are two different kinds of PATS, internal and external. The Escort GTI has internal PATS, which means the keyfob security is inside the ECU itself. If you swap over to an earlier non-PATS ECU, eg: the ones detailed in the sticky, then all you need to do is swap a few wires over and you have a running car (without PATS).

 

Megasquirt - what do you want to know?

[ScORTED]

There is massive scope to megasquirt... its not for the faint hearted... by disabling the pats you only lose the immobaliser function. the alarm the cnetral locking and other functions will work as normal. by disabling it you remove the need ti have the kys coded to the ecu.

[swebber23]

There are two different kinds of PATS, internal and external. The Escort GTI has internal PATS, which means the keyfob security is inside the ECU itself. If you swap over to an earlier non-PATS ECU, eg: the ones detailed in the sticky, then all you need to do is swap a few wires over and you have a running car (without PATS).

 

Megasquirt - what do you want to know?

 

If i were to use megasquirt would i need to have a complete new loom made for under the engine or would i be able to just uses the existing one.

 

Silly question but if i was to use megasquirt would everything else still work or is that not controlled by the ecu?

 

Would i need to swap sensors and that over?

 

If i was to use a mondeo pats ecu and get it decoded would in then effectively be non pats so all i would have to do is swap the wires over.

[ScORTED]

If i were to use megasquirt would i need to have a complete new loom made for under the engine or would i be able to just uses the existing one.

use your existing one - you'd just need to buy an adaptorboard to allow oyu to plug the ms unit straight into your current ecu connector

 

Silly question but if i was to use megasquirt would everything else still work or is that not controlled by the ecu?

Yes! they are just simple circuits...

 

Would i need to swap sensors and that over?

for n/a applications megasquirt can run your engine just ising the standard zetec sensors, you could add aditional sensors to give you more information / more control

 

If i was to use a mondeo pats ecu and get it decoded would in then effectively be non pats so all i would have to do is swap the wires over.

the mondeo ecu's desk dale dewy aren't internal pats... to make it work on an escort some wire need swapping round, there is a guide.

[swebber23]

I meant if i couldnt find a non pats ecu and just used one with pats, if i got it uncoded would it work the same as a non pats one?

 

In your opinion would megasquirt be better to use than a piggyback chip? as realistically there isnt alot of price difference.

[Stu]

Don't ya just love it when someone answers for you....................My reply..

If i were to use megasquirt would i need to have a complete new loom made for under the engine or would i be able to just uses the existing one.

You can do, but you don't need to. You can either a) get a custom loom made (~£400), b) Splice into the existing loom (~£50) or c) get an adapter board (which I haven't tested yet) for ~£100 or whatever it is they cost..

Silly question but if i was to use megasquirt would everything else still work or is that not controlled by the ecu?

Technically no, 'everything' else doesn't work. They are probably things you don't even know exist, apart from perhaps the idle control. And no, before anyone starts quoting me the Megasquirt features page, Idle control doesn't work in Megasquirt. It just about handles warm-up, but not closed-loop idle. This basically means your idle will be fine, but won't recover as well as the standard car (easier to stall for example). Other standard features (carbon canister purge, a/c and pas inputs, etc.) won't work under Megasquirt, but it's no major issue.

Would i need to swap sensors and that over?

Nope. Both temperature sensors on the zetec are actually the same calibration. I have the relevant calibration curves for Megasquirt already.For more info check out my website: http://megatuned.com

I meant if i couldnt find a non pats ecu and just used one with pats, if i got it uncoded would it work the same as a non pats one?In your opinion would megasquirt be better to use than a piggyback chip? as realistically there isnt alot of price difference.

You will find a non-pats ECU, they crop up all the time. Easily found in scrapyards too! DESK, DEWY or DEEP is fine. Try and get DEEP or DEWY if possible as my chips for those are superior ;)For a slightly modified car, i'd just get the existing ecu remapped, which I do. Not much point in moving over to complete new management that won't technically drive as good as the factory stuff.

[ScORTED]

so your answers were pretty damn close to mine... whats your problem? do you have sand in your vagina?

[Stu]

No, do you? Don't assume I was being negative!

[ScORTED]

if you weren't i apologise - i jumped the gun

[swebber23]

How much would it be to supply a megasquirt, adapter board and a map for a 2 litre zetec?

 

In relation to the chip, is it possible to get a chip supplied for a car that has a 4-2-1, decat, and stainless exhaust, and enclosed induction kit with a map to suit?if so what sort of prices would i be looking at?

[ScORTED]

the reccomended adaptor boards for the V2 MS were the "megascott" adaptorboards i think they were about £60 and i heard good things about them.this forum is good for megasquirt help http://www.msefi.com - there are several people on there who have done it themselves, although you do need a good understanding of engine management to get very far with it youself and many tuners will charge a premium to map it.Bill shurvinton (sp?) is a good bloke to get your MS offchipsdon't work like that mate.. they need to mapped to you exact setup on a rolling road otherwise any gains would be pure chancei doubt you'd have much change from £260 to buy the ms and the adaptor board built up tested and working.you will be able to download a base map for a standard 2.0 engine which will work fine untill you have a tuner tweak it for your mods

[Stu]

How much would it be to supply a megasquirt, adapter board and a map for a 2 litre zetec?

 

In relation to the chip, is it possible to get a chip supplied for a car that has a 4-2-1, decat, and stainless exhaust, and enclosed induction kit with a map to suit?if so what sort of prices would i be looking at?

 

The Megasquirts I sell for your kind of car are the same price as detailed at extraefi.co.uk (~£285). I'm not sure how much the adapter boards are, I don't really know of many people running them and there isn't a stockist in the UK. Depends on exchange rates and how you get it shipped over from the states. Personally i'd just splice into the original loom as I did in my GTI Turbo project (Performance Ford July I think). I charge £250/day for mapping - I don't supply base maps on Megasquirt (because there's nothing stopping them being leaked to the internet community).

 

With regards to the EEC chip, I could do you an off-the-shelf chip for that spec with a rev limit of your choice for approx. £200. If you want it live mapped, then it'd be as the above mapping fee + £100.

[swebber23]

How much would it be to supply a megasquirt, adapter board and a map for a 2 litre zetec?

 

In relation to the chip, is it possible to get a chip supplied for a car that has a 4-2-1, decat, and stainless exhaust, and enclosed induction kit with a map to suit?if so what sort of prices would i be looking at?

 

The Megasquirts I sell for your kind of car are the same price as detailed at extraefi.co.uk (~£285). I'm not sure how much the adapter boards are, I don't really know of many people running them and there isn't a stockist in the UK. Depends on exchange rates and how you get it shipped over from the states. Personally i'd just splice into the original loom as I did in my GTI Turbo project (Performance Ford July I think). I charge £250/day for mapping - I don't supply base maps on Megasquirt (because there's nothing stopping them being leaked to the internet community).

 

With regards to the EEC chip, I could do you an off-the-shelf chip for that spec with a rev limit of your choice for approx. £200. If you want it live mapped, then it'd be as the above mapping fee + £100.

 

With regards to mapping how many days would it take?

 

What sort of gains would i be looking at with megaquirt with the above fitted? Also if a trust electrical inlet was fitted would i see further gains?

[Stu]

With regards to mapping how many days would it take?

 

What sort of gains would i be looking at with megaquirt with the above fitted? Also if a trust electrical inlet was fitted would i see further gains?

 

Oh, it'd be 1 day for either Megasquirt or EEC. I honestly wouldn't bother with Megasquirt for your spec, the EEC chip i'd do you would only be fine-tuning the Ford calibration anyway as it wouldn't be far out.

 

You'd probably lose power if you fitted one of those hideous drainpipe manifolds - whoever designed it obviously has no idea about air flow.