Lee R Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 it bugs me when people moan at the government saying UNi should be free etc etc etc....Me too, because I ain't gonna benefit from them going to Uni! You should dispose of your UCAS form and go and apply for full time, in the real world!!!! well that's pissed me off when you get ill and have to go to the doctor's or hospital... where the hell do you think those people learn how to fix you??? i'd say that this is exactly the problem, people don't realise just how much a univesity education means and how much it is needed in some cases what about the blokes who sat down and designed the escort in the first place, or any other cars for that matter, even the guy who sketches the little concepts needs an art/design degree and what about the people who make the cars a reality.. they all need automotive engineering degrees why don't you think before you say something like that? does Al have a degree? the people that make the car 'happen' are the front line 'workers' It still doesnt change the fact you CHOOSE to go Uni, nobody forces you. so stop moaning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceri Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 I do a part time course at uni whilst working full time, my course cost around £800 a year but because its kind of an apprenticeship the government give more than half the cost of the course back to my employers say about £500 so the cost to my employer is about £300 which is fcuk all to them. The government are charging £300 for me to do the course and £1200 to all full time students most of which won't be able to get a job at the end of their course because they haven't got any practical experience. I think the government should encourage more employers to train their staff whilst working Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrix Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 I do a part time course at uni whilst working full time, my course cost around £800 a year but because its kind of an apprenticeship the government give more than half the cost of the course back to my employers say about £500 so the cost to my employer is about £300 which is fcuk all to them. The government are charging £300 for me to do the course and £1200 to all full time students most of which won't be able to get a job at the end of their course because they haven't got any practical experience. I think the government should encourage more employers to train their staff whilst working They do, for under 20's, while i passed my NVQ level 3 in data networking in under a year as its flexi, think your given 3 years to complete, was shite, they took advantage by paying nothing so left once id completed my training, was only earning £50 a week working 40 hours. Modern aprentiships are a joke lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scuba Matt Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 OK I know that when we reply to Student Debt we are usually refering to Uni Students but really to be fair how do you define Student ? We all seem to think of the person doing a degree but really we should think of anyone in a form of learning as a Student. I myself did a diploma in Civil engineering and then proceeded to go to university to study but dropped out after a year not because I couldn't do it ( my first year was easier than my Diploma) but because I decided that was not for me and did not Know what i wanted to do. I then proceeded to become a Scuba Diving Instructor that cost me around 10K including coursework equipment living costs ect. and I had to get a job to earn my money first no chance of a loan there from the goverment. Education after 18 is a choice whether you chose to get a degree or train in a skill and in a truly Socialist world it should all be free. I know people with degrees that will never command the pay I get in fact I even knew a doctor once on the ships that was a Cabin attendant cleaning rooms because he made more money doing that and was saving to become a sugeon in his own country ( Equador) . Why should education from a university be free and education from elswhere have to be paid for . If we didn't have all the highley skilled labourers and workers in the country life would be pretty miserable no food no accomadation no transport. Eduacation of any type should be available for all that's how we would put the Great back into britain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappers Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 does Al have a degree? the people that make the car 'happen' are the front line 'workers' It still doesnt change the fact you CHOOSE to go Uni, nobody forces you. so stop moaning wtf? do you even know what you're talking about???? if the car wasn't thought up in the first place by people with degrees, then it would never get to the 'workers' guess who designed the machines that make the cars at ford? oh wait, that would be someone with a degree....... If no-one chose to go to uni, because they were worried that they would get in thousands of pounds of debt, then none of these things would happen, there would be no schools, no hospitals and you'd probably be a lot less happy the point is these people should pay less to do this, as it does help a lot of other people who couldn't be arsed to go to uni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scuba Matt Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 If no-one chose to go to uni, because they were worried that they would get in thousands of pounds of debt, then none of these things would happen, there would be no schools, no hospitals and you'd probably be a lot less happy Actually having lived in a 5th world nation for a year where 90% of the population has no access to electricity running water sewer system and the National average for a wage is $200 USD per year I can tell you those people are a lot happier than most of the British I meet. They enjoy the fact the are alive and not the rat race we live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee R Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 (edited) wtf? do you even know what you're talking about???? ,I can but at that. Remind me of your age again guess who designed the machines that make the cars at ford? oh wait, that would be someone with a degree....... your point. I assume that person CHOSE to go Uni and CHOSE to pay If no-one chose to go to uni, because they were worried that they would get in thousands of pounds of debt, then none of these things would happen, there would be no schools, no hospitals and you'd probably be a lot less happy yeah, in about 300 years time the point is these people should pay less to do this why? Edited June 12, 2004 by Lee R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cargy Posted June 12, 2004 Author Share Posted June 12, 2004 We seem to be getting bogged down on a minor point here Both points are valid but must coexist to enable progress. The fact is, without designers with degrees, the modern motor car would not exist as it is. Equally, Without the production line staff (with degrees or not ), the car wouldn't get built. BOTH are essential to it's construction. The relevant question is whether the higher paid designers should owe a debt for the education that elevated them above the production staff in the first place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee R Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 (edited) The relevant question is whether the higher paid designers should owe a debt for the education that elevated them above the production staff in the first place! yes, cos they CHOSE it If they didnt, someone else would I still owe a 2k debt for my education, cos thats what I chose to do. Not alot is free in this day and age Edited June 12, 2004 by Lee R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cargy Posted June 12, 2004 Author Share Posted June 12, 2004 Not alot is free in this day and age Never a truer word spoken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee R Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 just thinking about it, maybe an answer is course depending...?? ie: medical etc, what the country NEEDS, maybe free, and thing like (ffs Ian, dont take this the wrong way) animation, which we could clearly live without, has fee's... obviously if its paid for by the government, its paid for by us. Now, I'd have no exception contributing towards medical training (providing the NHS got a huge kick up the arse), but I would object to paying for someone to study for their fantasy job HGV training should also be sustancially reduced. The country NEEDS them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike RS2300 Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 Im not going to comment on this, might offend too many people!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike RS2300 Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 Did you know you can get a degree in animal behaviour!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee R Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 Im not going to comment on this, might offend too many people!!! go for it, never stopped me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cargy Posted June 12, 2004 Author Share Posted June 12, 2004 Im not going to comment on this, might offend too many people!!! go for it, never stopped me Lee's right. If you've got an opinion, express it, listen to other people's responses and use that to modify your opinion if necessary. Never let it become personal and you have a debate not an argument. I never started this for controversy, I'm genuinely interested in ppl's opinions, and you need to hear all viewpoints to get a balanced spectrum. (sorry drifted into BOB mode) I'd love to hear from Jordan on this too. He's usually quite outspoken, but I think he's got guests atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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