DrDan Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 First post, so hi all Before I go buying parts, I thought I'd get some second opinions on a problem my brother is having on his Escort. Its a 1.6 Zetec, on a P-plate. Basically, its running very rough first thing on a morning. Almost like the idle speed is just too slow, and its causing the whole car to shake. Revving it up it runs smoothly, but if you come off the throttle it often doesn't catch onto the idle and just conks out. So rolling up to junctions and dipping the clutch often means you need to restart the car. Once the car is almost up to temp (comes out of the white), the problem gets much better. When driving at normal rpms she drives very well. However, even when hot a few seconds after it starts idling after driving the revs start to get a little lumpy, but not so much that it stalls. The spark plugs are fine, the exhaust system is fine, the air filter and intake pipe is fine, going to try some Redex today but my instinct tells me the fuel system is fine. We had the engine idling hot, and it was a bit lumpy, and were removing one lead at a time to check for sparks, when we removed the lead from cyl 1 it made barely any difference to how the engine was idling, but there was spark at the lead (looked a little weak). If we removed the leads from 2 or 3 the engine would stall, but we could see a very strong looking spark on these cylinders. Cylinder 4 was the same as cylinder 1, made a slight difference to how the engine ran but didn't cause the car to stall. We even disconnected 1 and 4 at the same and had the engine running on just two cylinders, and it even ran well on just two and would rev up to 4k rpm just like it was on all 4. When the car is driving on the road, it is definitely running on all 4. If it was running on 3 or even 2 it would be very noticeable but this isn't the case, the engine runs very well indeed. So, within the coil pack are there two coils, 1 coil for cyls 1 and 4 and 1 coil for cyls 2 and 3? This is my impression, seen as there is no distributor and the firing order is 1 - 3 - 4 - 2. Any ideas guys? (Sorry for the essay lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellykins Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 (edited) if there was a fault within the coil leads or plugs that would have a tendency to show up more when under load , eg along dual carriageway motorway etc. Im not a mechanic m8 so dont take my words as gospel but your problem sounds like the idle control valve. It could need cleaning or have a leak. if it is that here is a guide . need to do my own not looking forward to it =] http://davespages.forumotion.com/zetec-f13...the-iscv-t7.htm Edited March 15, 2009 by Mellykins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDan Posted March 15, 2009 Author Share Posted March 15, 2009 Cheers for posting, that would not explain it being able to run on only cyls 2 and 3 though. It seems like these two cylinders are doing 90% of the work, with 1 and 4 doing next to nothing on idle but working perfectly when driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
escort4x4 Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 if you need a coil pack mate pm me, but i would point towards your ht leads mate, with age they will break down inside, causing weak sparks at the plugs, you say your spark plugs are fine, so i would point towards HT leads, simple and easy fix, if you need either the pack or the ht leads pm me as i have both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDan Posted March 15, 2009 Author Share Posted March 15, 2009 I've read the walk-through, going to tackle it and see if it makes a difference. Its probably never been cleaned before so making sure it is clean will help the car run as well as it can. Cheers Thanks for posting escort4x4, may take you up on that. Top test the leads I am going to try and run it on two cylinders again but with cylinder 2 operating using the lead from cylinder 1. If it runs then the lead for 1 is fine, problem could be coil or ISCV. If it doesn't run I know the leads are knackered. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDan Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 Update: Its not the leads, the engine runs on just cylinder 2 and 3 using the leads from either 1 & 2 or 1 & 3 so I know the leads are fine. ISCV is fine also, so this leaves coil pack as the first thing to actually buy.. I got a price of £48 does this sound reasonable for a new part? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 If 1+4 or 2+3 have died, it's more than likely the coilpack, but could also be a wiring loom fault or rarely, an ecu problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDan Posted March 26, 2009 Author Share Posted March 26, 2009 Cheers Stu, think I will get my brother to get himself a coilpack soon and I'll fit it, hopefully it'll be the end of our problems. Just to further isolate the problem, I swapped the leads from my Punto and the car run exactly the same as described in the first post. So leads must be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveB Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Cheers for posting, that would not explain it being able to run on only cyls 2 and 3 though. It seems like these two cylinders are doing 90% of the work, with 1 and 4 doing next to nothing on idle but working perfectly when driving. Can you do a compression check? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boostic Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 If one coil pack seems to be showing faulty why not swap them to see if it makes a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC_Bob Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 There is only one on a zetec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boostic Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 There is only one on a zetec. Maybe not then lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDan Posted March 29, 2009 Author Share Posted March 29, 2009 Cheers for posting, that would not explain it being able to run on only cyls 2 and 3 though. It seems like these two cylinders are doing 90% of the work, with 1 and 4 doing next to nothing on idle but working perfectly when driving. Can you do a compression check? I could get a loan of a compression testing kit but I'd be suprised if 1 and 4 were both down on compression with them being at opposite ends of the block. The head gasket is intact for sure, there's no oil/water contamination. When the car is up and running it runs great, definitely at full power, so it must be electrical. We have changed the coil pack now and it hasn't made a blind bit of difference, luckily we got one at the scrapper for three quid. Now we are looking at the ignition module fixed onto the inner wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDan Posted April 1, 2009 Author Share Posted April 1, 2009 OK, it seems the Haynes manual I have is from an older Escort, as there is no ignition module fixed onto the inner wing. We are now going to check the crankshaft position sensor as this is what activates the spark for cylinders 1 and 4, however I've never known a failing crankshaft position sensor to give symptoms like this before so I will be slightly suprised if that is the issue. Normally they cause the car to cut out when hot and not restart until they have cooled. Does anyone know if these engines also have a camshaft position sensor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC_Bob Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 The EDIS module on the wing was only on RS2000s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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