1999 Ford Escort Flight 1.6 - is it OBD-I or OBD-II?

[mosis]

Hi, my Escort has recently been losing power intermittently, and I bought an OBD-II code reader, but it doesn't recognise the car. I read on a forum that the 1999 Escorts have an OBD-II type connector, but use a special code format that isn't OBD-II, does anybody know if this is correct, and if so, is there a reader I can buy for it?

The car can lose power when accelerating in first gear - often times I have almost no power and after flooring the accelerator, after a few seconds it makes a difference and the power comes back. Going up hill the car sometimes loses power, after flooring it it picks up power half of the time.

Many thanks in advance if anybody can help.

[opexo]

If you can take off the plastic cover on the door side in passengers legs see what is the ECUs code (four big symbols letters and/or numbers) and see if the wiring plug is 60pin or more.

If it's 60pin plug (three rows by 20pins) its either late eec-iv or the weird eec-v. Both are obd-1 with the special code format.

If it's with more than 60pin plug (four rows by ... pins) it's full obd-2.

In the first case your only option to self diagnose is to seek Tomin in the czech ford club forum and buy his 'invention' ForDIAG.

In the second case you can also use the solution for the first case or use some other obd-2 ford compatible scanner.

[mosis]

Hi, I've taken a picture of it:

 

http://postimg.org/image/422bk95lh/

 

My OBD-II code reader connector fits it perfectly, but that's all. I don't think it's 60 pins though.

[Stu]

Opexo- incorrect, SteveB on here has made his own reader.

[mosis]

Hi guys, I took my car to the garage, and typically, the fault didn't occur while they were test driving it. I got them to change the fuel filter (as I had already bought one and was getting round to changing it myself), as I thought maybe it was dirty, and could be stopping fuel from getting through, but that didn't fix it.

They said the car was too old to test on their computer. Do any of you know what sort of interface my onboard diagnostics is? I am happy to buy a custom reader if it will fix the problem, the mechanic said that without the computer they could end up changing endless parts until they find what is causing the problem.

[cherrybeard]

Mosis, I have this exact same problem. Intermittently, the car loses all power and full throttle makes no difference. Sometimes it will maintain its current speed, other times it even 'loses' speed, even going downhill. It feels like the power is being 'switched' on and off, often happening when placing the car under load such as going up hills or generally wanting to accelerate more quickly than normal driving.

The reader that I bought from SteveB was indicating that my lambda was leaning out at the exact point where I was losing power. The moment that the lambda switched the other way, I regained all power. The fault code reader also implied that there was a problem with the ROM on the ecu which I replaced. This seemed to make the problem disappear (I think, just a few test drives) but the problem often creeps back again. This is as far as I have got with the diagnostics as I work 7 days a week, often 18 hour days and to be quite honest, the problem makes the car so unpleasant and unreliable to drive that I was thinking of smashing the thing up. The only thing stopping me is the countless hours of work renovating the brakes, suspension, cam belt, water pump etc.

If you come up with anything positive, please return to this thread!

[mosis]

Hi cherrybeard, that sounds just like my problem. Here in more detail is what I've been experiencing for the past two months or so:

1: Pulling away from a traffic light or junction - often there is no response from the car as I press the accelerator, even though the engine is speeding up, for a second or so, then suddenly, without pushing the accelerator any further, it bursts into life and suddenly has power, and I pull away.

2: When cruising in fourth or fifth gear, say at 30 or 40MPH, the car suddenly starts to 'jerk' back and forwards, as if only running on three, or maybe even two, cylinders - if I take my foot of the accelerator completely, the problem goes away, and the car continues at the same speed, (or thereabouts, maybe a tiny amount of slowing down) - as soon as I press the accelerator a little, the whole car starts to jerk like mad again. This lasts for about five seconds normally.

3: When going uphill, the car often loses power, I can feel it in the accelerator - which no longer accelerates - and I have to put my foot to the floor - it's as if the petrol is going into the cylinders but isn't being ignited, in one or more cylinders.

 

In spite of all this, it still starts perfectly (it's never failed to start in two years of ownership), I never have a problem when I first reverse out of my drive every morning (although I'm going very slowly at that stage, but I would feel the lack of power as I go uphill a bit to get off my drive).

 

I found this guide about how to change the lambda sensor, do you reckon I should try this?

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/gds/Car-warning-ligh...03611177/g.html

 

(If it's under £30-£40 I will give it a go.)

 

The other interesting thing is - two weeks ago I drove about three miles on a motorway, just to see how it would go, as I was thinking about doing a 30 mile motorway drive the following week - it was fine on the three mile drive, and afterwards exhibited none of the symptoms above for the next hour and a half of driving, on the following day - and then started to jerk again, out of the blue. So I thought that maybe the higher revs on the motorway had cleaned out something - but obviously not permanently.

 

Thanks for telling me about your lambda readings - when you say your lambda was 'leaning out', what do you mean exactly? (I'm not a mechanic so I'm not familiar with this term).

[cherrybeard]

Your 1st point sounds like a slipping clutch!

Your 2nd point - I never really experienced jerking apart from those times when one of my spark plugs cracks (usually cylinder one or two).

Your 3rd point - When the problem manifests, I feel it instantly as a really bad throttle response e.g. making slight adjustments to accelerator pedal makes no difference. It definitely feels like an on/off switch. When the problem is there and you press the pedal to the floor the car 'springs' back into life with full power but only after an unpredictable amount of time (sometimes 2-3 seconds, sometimes up to 30 seconds).

 

As for the lambda reading, what I meant was that it was indicating a lean mixture whilst the problem was happening. I don't know whether it is my lambda sensor playing up or something else. Thats the beauty with these engines, they are awful for diagnostics, especially when you are an enthusiast and not a mechanic. If I could figure out how to accurately test the lambda then I can decide whether to buy a new one or not. Ebay has cheap ones for £20 (I put one of these in 3-4 years ago) but ford will want £60-80 for a genuine one. If it turns out to be my lambda sensor then I will get a genuine one this time.

 

Last time I took the car on a long run was about a month ago, Essex to yorkshire and I was trying to replicate the problem. It definitely happened more frequently when accelerating from cruising 54-56mph (5th gear). Easing the pedal down quite slowly was fine. Pushing the pedal any further put the car into 'crap' mode although the annoying thing is is that this didn't happen every single time. Once I got past 60mph the problem happened much less often.

[mosis]

Hi Cherrybeard - do you think the garage would have spotted the clutch was slipping if that was the cause? The mechanic took it for a test drive, and I guess he would have jumped at the chance at being able to change the clutch for me, as it was I only paid them £15 odd to fit a new fuel filter I had bought, in case that was the cause of the problem. I might be wrong about the engine speeding up when I'm initially trying to pull away, I'm normally too busy swearing at the car and worrying about whoever is stuck behind me, thinking I'm a slow idiot.

When I'm cruising along, the problem manifests as a reduction in power when I press the accelerator down further - if I let it go back to its 'cruising' position, the jerking stops, the engine runs fine, but as soon as I push it down a little, to try to speed up, the engine starts to play up and I lose power. I presume there is a throttle sensor that tells the ECU how far I've pushed the accelerator pedal, and then the ECU tells the engine to do certain things in relation to that - maybe that sensor (or one of the other ones) is dirty, and so the ECU gets confused or something?

Is is possible to clean the lambda sensor, or is it a case of it needing replacement and being faulty, if it is the cause?

[cherrybeard]

Cleaning them normally results in damage. There is a throttle position sensor and you can test it if you have a multimeter or SteveBs software Edited September 7, 2013 by cherrybeard

[mosis]

Hi cherrybeard, I've been watching what happens when I try to pull away, and the engine isn't speeding up, that was just me remembering incorrectly - the engine just sits at the same speed while I press the accelerator and nothing happens, then if I press it right down, after a second it suddenly speeds up, which is a shock, I can tell you! But that seems to be the only way to get it to go. These problems don't happen all the time though.

I'll have a look at the throttle position sensor this weekend, it could be that.

Edited September 12, 2013 by mosis

[scottybo]

go down the crappy n grab a throttle body, only ten mins to change

[MikeyRS]

Sounds like a MAF issue, or the CAT is breaking up. Unplug the MAF and see if its any different. If those are ok, keep an eye on the fuel level when the fault occurs, the fuel pump may be on the way out. Carry out all the simple checks like split breather hose etc...

 

The escort is such a basic car electrically, theres no real cause to waste money on a code reader.

[mosis]

Hi MikeyRS, thanks for your advice, I will check the MAF (I suspected that might be a possible cause, as it definitely feels like the ECU thinks the throttle isn't open sometimes, when it is, and isn't providing enough petrol to the engine).

I have just checked the throttle position sensor (TPS in case anybody searches for it!), and that was reading fine, so that's another thing ruled out. One interesting thing - I started the engine with the TPS cables disconnected, and it ran fine (at least when stationary) - is that normal? I revved it and it seemed to be fine - but then I wasn't moving, so maybe there wasn't much power there.

 

 

When you say keep an eye on the fuel level when the fault occurs, how do I do that? (Sorry, I'm not brilliant with cars.) I will check all the hoses when I'm looking at the MAF.

 

 

ps by CAT do you mean catalytic converter? Sorry if that's obvious, but I wasn't sure.

[mosis]

Hi MikeyRS, I checked the MAF and one of the elements looks corroded, the other is clean. I was going to post up clear photos of it, but I can't get my memory card reader to work, so I will post them up next week when I get a new card reader, in case anybody else would benefit from it. I'm pretty sure the MAF is the cause of this problem now, I turned on the engine and then unplugged the MAF connector, it made no difference at all, so I presume that means the MAF wasn't working properly. I'll buy a new one and let you know if it fixes it!

Would I be right in thinking that it's worth spending £35-£40 for a brand new one off Ebay, rather than risking buying a used one for £10 - £15? I think the car only has a few years' life left before rust takes it over, but I know how important the MAF is now, so I think I should buy a new one. (If it was a £145 job I would try a used one first)

Edited September 14, 2013 by mosis