Naylor2006 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Hello, well this next on my list of things to sort out, I thought the problem might go away after transplanting the engine but its still doing it. This only happens when the car is up to normal running temperature. When reverse parallel parking for example upon stopping reversing the idle drops low and before ive had time to put it in first the batterly light comes on and the car dies, then starting it again isnt fun, have to manually keeps the revs up with the throttle, which when parking and poping back and forth aligning in the space is annoying and difficult. It doesn't always cut out, sometimes the idle drops real low but the engine picks up enough on its own. Using electrical equipment makes it worse, which is why I think it's got something to do with the power steering drain on the electrics, sometimes it can happen when pulling up to a junction but not that often. Is it as simple as a comletely shagged idle control valve? Bad battery, bad earth or bad alternator? Thanks for any help. Edited March 13, 2012 by Naylor2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganges Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Not an expert, so could well be wrong, could be lamba sensor, or crap in the throttle body, the later happened to me, stripped and cleaned, sweet as a nut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naylor2006 Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Not an expert, so could well be wrong, could be lamba sensor, or crap in the throttle body, the later happened to me, stripped and cleaned, sweet as a nut To be fair the lambda sensor age is unknown, throttle body was clean completely with the idle control valve during the recent engine transplant. My catalytic convertor failed epically last year as well and they say they don't fail for no reason. Also just read that the lambda sensor doesn't ven start working till the car is hot, would explain why this problem is never apparent when cold. Hopefully picking up a replacement MAF soon as well, not that I think it's broke but JC has one that def isn't, maybe just swap out the lambda too. Edited March 13, 2012 by Naylor2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganges Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 it does sound like the lamba, this happened to me with a vauxhall i had, and as with you only when the engine got hot, well it is a cheap place to start, if nothing else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Also just read that the lambda sensor doesn't ven start working till the car is hot, would explain why this problem is never apparent when cold. Which is about 15 seconds. They're heated sensors. Whether or not the ECU starts to look at under a particular coolant temperature (and throttle angle) depends on the particular strategy. SteveB probably has more current knowledge than I do on this, I haven't looked at an EEC-IV warm-up strategy for years now. There is an anti-stall strategy in your ECU which relies on the ISCV working correctly, so yes a faulty ISCV could be the cause of your problem. If you are using the same ISCV from your old engine to the new and the problem persists, then it's at least one item worth looking at, along with anything else you carried over from the previous engine configuration. The problem is you don't really know if the engine isn't running correctly unless it's a very bad problem, e.g. a misfire or very poor fuel economy. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference between an air:fuel ratio of 13:1 or 15:1 whilst cruising without appropriate equipment, but neither value are right for cruising or idling (once warm). My point is anything that the engine relies on for running correctly could be causing the issue you state. Everything is relative, and everything has to work together correctly for the mapping/strategy to do its job. Controlling idle and anti-stall and driveability is 90% of the mapping work, which takes about 2 years to complete. It's very complex and time-consuming to get right, so any sensor, vacuum leak, anything not 100% will throw it right out and give you symptoms like you describe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naylor2006 Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Thanks for the reply Stu, it's a shame that 'it could be anything' because my aim with this escort is to build a sweet running car on the whole and cutting out is a massive chink in the armour. I was beginning to think it was something just to expect with hybrid engine builds, it certainly wasn't cutting out when it was in the mondeo but then it has the mondeo throttle bottle and inlet manifold etc. Yes a good start would be to look at what came from the old engine, which is all the auxillaries, MAF, inlet manifold and vacuums, and all the sensors i think. Best get on with that then. Here's some more info if it helps anyone point me in a better direction. This only happens really when the car is super hot, it wouldn't happen after 15 seconds for example. When you approach a junction and drop the clutch I thought the revs were supposed to stay at like 1000 or 1100 before the car comes to a stand still then it should drop to 900 shouldn't it? Alot of the time I can be approaching a junction and drop the clutch and the revs drop down straight away, too low before returning to the correct rpm or at least near to. Hot starts are rubbish but only they seem to be worse when left for 10 minutes rather than 5. If the cars super hot and I shut the engine of and restart after 60 seconds it picks up where it left off, leave it ten minutes and it might not stay started on its own without some gentle throttle. Lastly you could be sitting idling fine without issue then for literally no reason the rpm will drop, the engine will lump then it will try to pick up again, sometimes it does sometimes it dies. As far as running in general it doesn't show any obvious symptoms, in fact most of the time it works fine but parking is always where it is the worst, or a simple 3 point turn. Looks like I'm just gonna have to start replacing stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 MAF's are prone to fail. the lambda sensor was off Tez's orange beast. The Inlet was a 1.8 off an Si - I think from Dean Idle control valve was recycled, genuine ford off ebay will be about £35.... Mine doesn't really like to idle when restarted when hot.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naylor2006 Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 MAF's are prone to fail. the lambda sensor was off Tez's orange beast. The Inlet was a 1.8 off an Si - I think from Dean Idle control valve was recycled, genuine ford off ebay will be about £35.... Mine doesn't really like to idle when restarted when hot.... Think im gonna replace all 3, JC ill pm now, ill wait for brake cable and take the two other items off you now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 This only happens really when the car is super hot, it wouldn't happen after 15 seconds for example. The engine runs rich when cold which increases the engine speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naylor2006 Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 This only happens really when the car is super hot, it wouldn't happen after 15 seconds for example. The engine runs rich when cold which increases the engine speed. Well yeh, thats why it isnt a problem then because the revs go no where near low enough to cut out, its only when the thing is idling for its self at normal running temp there would appear to be the problem. Shame you just cant set the idle speed solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahmotorsport Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Shame you just cant set the idle speed solid.Put a pair of 45's on it, set your mixture and idle, no more mapping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naylor2006 Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Shame you just cant set the idle speed solid.Put a pair of 45's on it, set your mixture and idle, no more mapping. Think i might give that a miss for a bit and just start replacing sensors and the idle control valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Shame you just cant set the idle speed solid. It came out of the factory with a rock solid idle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naylor2006 Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) Ive lined up a known working 2.0 MAF, idle control valve, new plastic inlet manifold with 2.0 throttle body (hopefully Sleeman still got it for sale) and ive decided to replace induction cone with an original airbox with a panel filter fitted, those cones are so loud and i'd rather listen to my mongoose. Ill change all that, reset the ECU then see what happens. Edited March 14, 2012 by Naylor2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Shame you just cant set the idle speed solid. It came out of the factory with a rock solid idle. Im gonna take your advice and start changing sensors etc one by one. Ive lined up a known working 2.0 MAF, idle control valve, new plastic inlet manifold with 2.0 throttle body (hopefully Sleeman still got it for sale) and ive decided to replace induction cone with an original airbox with a panel filter fitted, those cones are so loud and i'd rather listen to my mongoose. Ill change all that, reset the ECU then see what happens. That wasn't my advice. I simply stated that anything on the engine not working correctly could cause a running issue. My advice is definitely not swap parts with other used parts. Do it right, do it once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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