Is anybody doing it legal?

[nullspace]

the reason people dont bother saying anything is...

 

if i opened the bonnet on an escort with a 1.8 130 zetec engine in there, and then opened the bonnet on an escort with an older cast efi 1.6 zetec

 

would anyone be able to tell the difference just by looking (if the sticker on the air pipe was missing). i certainly wouldnt be able to tell

 

Oh I totally get that, I do. And if I hit some car and there's a mere insurance dispute, then you could simply refuse to have the car inspected.

 

The problem is this - if you hit someone, and a person dies, then the vehicles are now a crime scene. No amount of 'refusal' will stop your car from being inspected, and as someone mentioned above, you'd have a prison sentence to accompany your guilty conscience.

 

You know?

[JOHNDQ]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks it a bit crazy not to declare it (and void the policy as mentioned above). Its also interesting, however, just how many people are flogging rs/cossie vans still registered as diesels etc. I guess it really is as widespread a practice as I thought.

 

you do realise there's people associated with insurance companies and the police using this site right?

 

If you read my post, you'll notice I'm not interested in hearing from those who aren't legit; I even state explicitly that I expect no reply from them (for obvious reasons). I'm simply curious as to peoples experience with insurance quote rises, and whether or not the 'illegal' conversion really is as prevalent as I'd assumed (which, shockingly, appears to be the case). I neither have nor had any intention of ever doing an unregistered conversion; hence my frustration at not being able to find a legit vehicle with which to run a 'test quote'.

 

In fact given that police and insurance companies, as you suggest, might visit this site makes the practice even more shocking. The amount of illegitimate conversion threads dotted over the place with registration plates happily on show is frankly retarded.

 

John

 

I don't see why your surprised you must live in a box lol this has been going on since the 30's or so, but to answer your question my Escort was a 1.3 but i put a RS engine in it, i haven't bothered telling DVLA is still classed as a 1.3 but i did check insurance difference is anywhere between £100 and £300 depends who you go with

Edited September 17, 2013 by JOHNDQ

[nullspace]

I don't see why your surprised you must live in a box lol this has been going on since the 30's or so, but to answer your question my Escort was a 1.3 but i put a RS engine in it, i haven't bothered telling DVLA is still classed as a 1.3 but i did check insurance difference is anywhere between £100 and £300 depends who you go with

 

Well it isn't really the practice that surprises me, it's the idiocy of people who seem to be doing it right out there in the open, with their details plastered all over the internet, lol.

 

Anyway, that's the kind of information i'm after - so thanks very much for that. Thank's as well to the other poster who gave me a round-about difference in quote.

 

Can I ask what was the approximate quote before the change? You don't have to answer that, I understand, but if it's a 100-300 pound change on a policy already as low as 200-300 pounds then thats quite the jump!

[Craig855S]

Mine was declared, 1.8 115 engine into a 1.6 3 door, V5 was updated and the car was for all intents and purposes a 1.8Si. therefore insurance was that of a 1.8Si.

[JOHNDQ]

I don't see why your surprised you must live in a box lol this has been going on since the 30's or so, but to answer your question my Escort was a 1.3 but i put a RS engine in it, i haven't bothered telling DVLA is still classed as a 1.3 but i did check insurance difference is anywhere between £100 and £300 depends who you go with

 

Well it isn't really the practice that surprises me, it's the idiocy of people who seem to be doing it right out there in the open, with their details plastered all over the internet, lol.

 

Anyway, that's the kind of information i'm after - so thanks very much for that. Thank's as well to the other poster who gave me a round-about difference in quote.

 

Can I ask what was the approximate quote before the change? You don't have to answer that, I understand, but if it's a 100-300 pound change on a policy already as low as 200-300 pounds then thats quite the jump!

 

Im sure it was around £340 for the 1.3 and around £425 when i had the RS2000 which i used for the parts i cant remember tho as it was a little while ago lol but it was defo cheaper to insure the real RS than my home made job.

[nullspace]

Mine was declared, 1.8 115 engine into a 1.6 3 door, V5 was updated and the car was for all intents and purposes a 1.8Si. therefore insurance was that of a 1.8Si.

 

Thanks. If only there was a standard 2.0 litre escort, then this would apply. It's tempting to try and find a 130 1.8 for this very reason.

 

Im sure it was around £340 for the 1.3 and around £425 when i had the RS2000 which i used for the parts i cant remember tho as it was a little while ago lol but it was defo cheaper to insure the real RS than my home made job.

 

Yeah this is what I was fearing - but the difference isn't that astronomical by the sounds of it. At any rate, I wouldn't be dropping the lump in until I renewed again and the insurance dropped a second time. Despite my ripe old age of 30 this is only my second year as a driver. The engineer in me, however, wants to be stripping down and rebuilding rs2000's - not servicing a 1.6, lol. I'll likely do it as a side project with no intent on using the actual engine until the costs are reasonable. Thanks though, you've helped give me at least a ballpark estimate.

 

Funny, isn't it, how a conversion costs more to insure than the original.

 

Cheers again,

 

John

[scottybo]

i went for the 130 in the end. just as fast as the 2l. easier conversion to do and there are 1.8 parts all over the place!

[JOHNDQ]

I get its down to the "risk" factor. Could prob find better with a competition insurance always find there the best bet with the Evo as its modded etc

 

The RS2K engine is a good choice mines standard other than a super chip but its quicker than my MG ZR160, my bro's ST170 and ST150 and even got past a Clio 172 cup @ Bedford autodrome after a slightly better exit onto the back straight. Its done over 100k and ive done 7 or 8 trackdays and still doesnt use a drop of fluids

Edited September 17, 2013 by JOHNDQ

[nullspace]

i went for the 130 in the end. just as fast as the 2l. easier conversion to do and there are 1.8 parts all over the place!

 

Yeah I think as a good performance go-between its a good idea, isn't it? Plus, if you can find it, theres that gorgeous steel EFI inlet, like on the old 1.6 (which I have, but its the smaller SO version, not the HO version you need for the 130). What's the difference with the 130? Is it just the inlet manifold or are the cams different too?

 

I really want to set myself up after xmas for a long-haul RS2K rebuild though. I'm even tempted to do the 2.3 galaxy conversion. Like I said though - this would be a long term project and my insurance would probably have dropped again by the time i came to use it anyway.

 

In the meantime, what you suggest might be a good idea. I could do a 'practice' resto on a 130 1.8 and enjoy that while i labour away at the RS.

 

I just love engines, lol - so addictive, just learning about them.

 

John

 

 

I get its down to the "risk" factor. Could prob find better with a competition insurance always find there the best bet with the Evo as its modded etc

 

The RS2K engine is a good choice mines standard other than a super chip but its quicker than my MG ZR160, my bro's ST170 and ST150 and even got past a Clio 172 cup @ Bedford autodrome after a slightly better exit onto the back straight. Its done over 100k and ive done 7 or 8 trackdays and still doesnt use a drop of fluids

 

Bloody hell. Those Clio 172's pull at around 190bhp if i recall?

 

Yeah, those I4's, as heavy as they are... there's just something 'pretty' about them, internally, if that makes sense? I think stripping and rebuilding one would, in the long run, be more a labour of love than with a 2.0 zetec.

 

As above though... the 1.8 130bhp model would be a great go-between for now i think.

[scottybo]

130 differs from standard 105 and 115 engines in a few way

 

105 - so cast efi inlet manifold

115 - plastic inlet from later escorts

130 - ho inlet manifold

 

130 also features the most aggresive cams found in any of the zetec engines. oil spray jets are found under the pistons on the 130 lump also. and the ecu has an ever so slightly different map.

 

these engines can be found in 130 xr3i mk5. si cabby mk5 and mk3.5 fiesta rs1800

[JOHNDQ]

i went for the 130 in the end. just as fast as the 2l. easier conversion to do and there are 1.8 parts all over the place!

 

Yeah I think as a good performance go-between its a good idea, isn't it? Plus, if you can find it, theres that gorgeous steel EFI inlet, like on the old 1.6 (which I have, but its the smaller SO version, not the HO version you need for the 130). What's the difference with the 130? Is it just the inlet manifold or are the cams different too?

 

I really want to set myself up after xmas for a long-haul RS2K rebuild though. I'm even tempted to do the 2.3 galaxy conversion. Like I said though - this would be a long term project and my insurance would probably have dropped again by the time i came to use it anyway.

 

In the meantime, what you suggest might be a good idea. I could do a 'practice' resto on a 130 1.8 and enjoy that while i labour away at the RS.

 

I just love engines, lol - so addictive, just learning about them.

 

John

 

 

I get its down to the "risk" factor. Could prob find better with a competition insurance always find there the best bet with the Evo as its modded etc

 

The RS2K engine is a good choice mines standard other than a super chip but its quicker than my MG ZR160, my bro's ST170 and ST150 and even got past a Clio 172 cup @ Bedford autodrome after a slightly better exit onto the back straight. Its done over 100k and ive done 7 or 8 trackdays and still doesnt use a drop of fluids

 

Bloody hell. Those Clio 172's pull at around 190bhp if i recall?

 

Yeah, those I4's, as heavy as they are... there's just something 'pretty' about them, internally, if that makes sense? I think stripping and rebuilding one would, in the long run, be more a labour of love than with a 2.0 zetec.

 

As above though... the 1.8 130bhp model would be a great go-between for now i think.

 

Im sure they come in 168, 172 and 186hp but what ever still not bad for a old Escort lol yeah the I4 is a heavy old lump need to keep it up near the rev limiter good luck with what ever you chose

[nullspace]

130 differs from standard 105 and 115 engines in a few way

 

105 - so cast efi inlet manifold

115 - plastic inlet from later escorts

130 - ho inlet manifold

 

130 also features the most aggresive cams found in any of the zetec engines. oil spray jets are found under the pistons on the 130 lump also. and the ecu has an ever so slightly different map.

 

these engines can be found in 130 xr3i mk5. si cabby mk5 and mk3.5 fiesta rs1800

 

Think i'll start looking out for one of these little beauties. How much did it set you back, roughly, the 130? I'll have to take a look at your project thread if its lying around somewhere. I probably already have, to be honest, but i'm terrible at connecting names with cars, lol.

 

I had no idea there was a 105ps 1.8 zetec out there, either. I assume the looms are straight 'plug and play' deals like with the 2.0?

[scottybo]

yeah the 105 was crap lol, less power than a1600 cvh!

 

i paid a little over the odds for mine however i will give my reasons. trying to source all of the parts to build a 130 can be quite difficult, for example the cams and the ho intake manifold, they are fairly rare and command a bit of a price

 

i paid £450 total, which was for

 

- complete 130 engine including ho inlet, cams, exhaust manifold, throttle body, the lot

- ecu with matching key, barrel and fuel cap

- water pump

- alternator

- radiator inc fan

- all hoses

- air box

- box of various spares

 

and thats including shipping costs

[bronze4door]

i know of 130 spec bits like the manifold loom and ecu as i sold the whole lot to someone who then only used the engine

 

the best bet for one of these is to buy a complete but rotten convertible escort like what i did, there is another one i have got my eye on

 

back to engine conversions though what would be the differnece if i put a 2.0l engine in my escort and registered it as a 2.0l escort with the dvla before i insured it, would the insurance companies still think it was a modified vehicle or just a 2.0l escort

[nullspace]

back to engine conversions though what would be the differnece if i put a 2.0l engine in my escort and registered it as a 2.0l escort with the dvla before i insured it, would the insurance companies still think it was a modified vehicle or just a 2.0l escort

 

See that was my thought too. There never 'was' a 2.0 litre zetec escort. I'm sure that i read somewhere the DVLA flags conversions as conversions, even though there might be a similar car as standard on the road. I think it's marked on the V5C? scottybo will confirm.

 

A 1.8 is a bit different though I imagine - as the insurance companies might class it as a 'standard replacement' or something, given that there are 1.8 escorts all over the place. Again though, I have no idea.

 

Sorry i've not been in touch by the way - been trying to work around the rain to get this car ready for welding. Are you free tomorrow afternoon? (It's meant to be pissing it down, may as well use the time constructively!). Drop me a text or something.

 

John

 

EDIT: Scratch that - don't think i can borrow the car tomorrow. How about friday? I'll drop ya a line anyway.