cheapo turbo!

[scottybo]

recently picked up another 1.8 130 engine.

 

thinking about building a cheap turbo project. as little money as humanly possible while maintaining a useable engine. i have read through a few guides but have found very few of them to be of much use. stu's guide was a very good read but not what im looking to do

 

so far i have

- 130 engine

- ho inlet

- 2.5mm decomp plate

- 2 headgaskets

- new gasket set

- arp con rod bolts

- zetec to cvh exhaust adapter

- escort rst exhaust manifold

- t3 turbo

n its only cost me just under £400 so far

 

obviously need injectors. a little bit of fabrication work (breathers and oil feed etc) and management

 

but is there anything else i will need to get it running. I AM NOT CHASING POWER FIGURES. just want it to work. just for my satisfaction. ill get some pics and stuff up soon

 

there just seems to be a lack of information on a lot of things

 

any help appreciated

[Stu]

Some help:

 

- You don't need ARP con rod bolts

- You will need uprated valve springs

- I can sell you some injectors

[scottybo]

Some help:

 

- You don't need ARP con rod bolts

- You will need uprated valve springs

- I can sell you some injectors

 

cheers pal. i bought the arp bolts for my other engine but never used them

 

could you suggest some valve springs that would be suitable? and what injectors are they? i remember you saying you had a set

[sidrick]

There's no such thing as a cheap turbo, just different levels of bodges. With 4 cars, I'd question why on earth you're going to attempt this, but I suppose that's neither here nor there, as with the 786458732648763278675632987427983641 'I want to build a turbocharged Escort for next to no money' threads on here.

 

You'll need a suitable ECU wired in and mapped

You'll need to plumb oil to and from the turbocharger

You'll need custom pipework both from the turbo to the inlet (via and intercooler if you choose to run one) and from the turbo to the rest of the exhaust system

 

Piper do suitable valve springs.

[scottybo]

There's no such thing as a cheap turbo, just different levels of bodges. With 4 cars, I'd question why on earth you're going to attempt this, but I suppose that's neither here nor there, as with the 786458732648763278675632987427983641 'I want to build a turbocharged Escort for next to no money' threads on here.

 

You'll need a suitable ECU wired in and mapped

You'll need to plumb oil to and from the turbocharger

You'll need custom pipework both from the turbo to the inlet (via and intercooler if you choose to run one) and from the turbo to the rest of the exhaust system

 

Piper do suitable valve springs.

 

as i said before im looking looking for anything fancy. and who said this was for the escort

 

i was reluctant to post entirely due to the thousands of other 'can i turbo my car' threads. but as you can see ive got a few of the parts and im aware of whats involved. im not trying to do it on the cheap because im a 'bodger'. i just want to know that i can do it. everyone needs to start somewhere lol

[Stu]

You're not aware of what's involved though.

[sidrick]

You're not aware of what's involved though.

 

Exactly, wasn't that the whole point of this thread (if there was one)?

[scottybo]

Should i just sell all my bits on then? Surely there was a time when u guys didnt know all the answers tho?

[dalelc16]

Should i just sell all my bits on then? Surely there was a time when u guys didnt know all the answers tho?

 

Lol im going through exactly the same thing.

 

It does look easy put on the other hand its nothing worse than fitting it all then somthing going wrong.

 

I had a quote for a zetec turbo to be done and the quote made my eyes bulge. 10k with vat and all running and looking 300 ish bhp.

[scottybo]

Should i just sell all my bits on then? Surely there was a time when u guys didnt know all the answers tho?

 

Lol im going through exactly the same thing.

 

It does look easy put on the other hand its nothing worse than fitting it all then somthing going wrong.

 

I had a quote for a zetec turbo to be done and the quote made my eyes bulge. 10k with vat and all running and looking 300 ish bhp.

 

10k is a ridiculous amount of money. stu pm me about the injectors, how much u want for them and what they are etc

[sidrick]

Should i just sell all my bits on then? Surely there was a time when u guys didnt know all the answers tho?

 

Just throw your toys out of the pram then.

 

The issue here is, what are you actually asking? Because you say you've read a few guides, including Stu's, but you're still lacking information It's all out there, the majority in Stu's guide, which is basically as cheap and proper as you can go without doing a pikey blow-up conversion.

 

You need to be more specific with what you actually want to know, and you'll likely get some help. To just start a thread asking what is needed, when you've been on the site so long, shows you either can't read, can't search, or you don't give a Fcuk about coming across like an div.

 

The long and the short of it is, a 'cheap' DIY zetec turbo will not be on the road and in a good state for less than £3k, assuming you can't map an ECU nor fabricate metalwork. £3k isn't cheap for the end product, in my eyes.

[scottybo]

that wasnt me throwing my toys out the pram, nothing is ever conveyed correctly with just text.

 

what i meant was, do you guys honestly think its not worth even trying a mega budget conversion? and i guess ur right, using a decomp plate is a pikey conversion. but as i said before, if i can just get it work ill be super chuffed with myself!

 

ive done a fair amount of research including reading stu's thread. theres loads of information out there sure but there always seems to be like specific information missing about certain parts, such as the valve springs and which throttle body to use (some people say to use the fiesta rs turbo one). also the internet is a minefield of misinformation hence why i asked experience guys rather than just taking what i read at face value

 

someone on another forum said to get some saxo vtr valve springs (which to me sounds like total bollucs). fabricating pipe work and exhausts and the like isnt much of a problem. at least it wouldnt be too difficult for me to get something made up. my dads a sheet metal worker by trade and his welding is spot on so im certain he could help me

 

im fairly confident i can bolt all the required parts together (as are most people i guess). im told that megasquirt ecu has a base map which can get the car running. sounds like a good route to go down to me

 

i dont want loads of power. i dont want fancy. i DO understand how naive threads like this always sound and without sounding like a total brown nose. i ask you guys because on this perticular topic, ur smarter than i am

[sidrick]

I thought Stu's guide covered valve springs? If not, then it has been mentioned a lot. I was just irked because you basically asked 'what do I need, what am I missing, I've read all the guides but want another'. Maybe just a mix of a lazy thread and me being a plum.

 

Anyway, IMO, if a Zetec turbo conversion could be done properly and at a cost that most people consider to be 'cheap' then everyone would be hooring about in one. The fact is, you're looking at £3k to end up with a so-so motor, making alright power, which is likely to be placed into a Swiss cheese 20 year old Ford.

 

I appreciate it'd be an achievement, blah blah, something you've built yourself, blah blah.... but it could (most likely) be a money pit that never makes it to the road, as with most DIY builds. When you consider that you can buy a Jap or German, 2wd or 4wd, turbocharged from new car for £2k, then no, I don't think it's even remotely worth it.

[Stu]

You're right, there is a lot of information out there. There's also a lot of bad information out there.

 

For example, the only real valid reason to use a FRST throttle body would be if you're using FRST management (OFAB/OFAC) and need that particular calibrated TPS attached to the TB.

 

I've heard of people using saxo/pug valve springs. If they're the right dimensions, provide the correct fitted height, the right seat pressure etc., then they should be fine. It's not something i've tested myself so can't offer any advice on. It's an easy test though, get one and offer it up against a zetec one, and compare the spring rates with some weights. If they don't go coil-bound at the amount of lift your cams will provide (about 10mm on the standard inlet cam IIRC) then you should be fine.

 

Re the injectors, let me check, I had one set which i'm not sure if I sold or not. I can get more though. Basically they're proper Bosch/Cosworth 300cc side-feed injectors which properly fit in the Zetec fuel rail, unlike the bodgers using Nissan injectors (where the o-rings don't fit properly).

 

 

If you have set your heart on doing a turbocharged zetec, why not spend a bit more time and thought into making it something a bit better than all the bodgework out there? For example, some VAG 1.8 pistons can be made to fit on the standard rods, and offer a stronger, lower compression solution, without resorting to a de-comp plate. Personally I wouldn't run a thick 2mm plate between two head gaskets as it's not a very flexible solution, which means not ideal for sealing or longevity. On my old budget conversion, I ran a 0.5mm stainless steel shim between two OE MLS head gaskets. It didn't really drop the compression ratio enough, which limited the power, but it works and was reliable until a future owner melted it by running the wrong fuel.

 

 

I think you have your mind firmly locked purely on the 'what you see' aspects of a turbo conversion, e.g. the turbo, manifold, exhaust, intercooler etc. There's a lot more than goes into it, and this costs money. For example, fuel system, what are you going to do about that? You could spend a few hundred quid on a fuel pump and swirl pot, and then custom lines to go with it would be extra. I used a Bosch 003 pump, which was inappropriate really as it flowed too much, in-tank without anything special, but it was still £150 or so and required some custom work inside the tank.

 

 

What are you going to do about fixing the leaks on the OE zetec inlet manifold? Oh, those other guides or forumites didn't mention that? Do you want your fuel pissing out of the inlet manifold once you come on boost? No, probably not. So you need custom fab work here if you want to use the OE zetec manifold with side-feed injectors. Of course, there are enough idiots out there who will tell you it's not necessary, with quotes like "it was never a problem no my mates car" or whatever. Yeah, good one.

 

 

I am not trying to put you off (although I do think it's a waste of time, there are much better, cheaper, better-performing cars out there, like an Impreza), but be careful that you don't start going down a dark, muddy path of ignorance and end up stuck and out of pocket with no end result. How many simple turbo conversions do you actually see on the road, that are more than just a discussion and pictures on a forum? Not many.. that's for sure!

[scottybo]

great deal of food for thought there stu, i appreciate it.

 

regarding valve springs id rather not run the risk of throwing something random in there and hoping its ok. id rather use some that are tried, tested and trusted. (bit of alliteration there for you!)

 

very interesting point about vag pistons, presumably we are looking at the 1.8 turbo out of the mk4 golf (probs the a3 and seat ibiza as well). i can check the sizes of the pistons against the standard zetec ones, do you have any idea what sort of compression ratio they would give? presumably the standard zetec rod could be drilled to accommodate the vag Goodgeon pin much like people do with the vauxhall pistons. and i think i could pick them up for a really decent price as well, there are plenty of those engines about!

 

when you say wrong fuel i can only guess that the engine you built had to be run on high octane due to compression being fairly high?

 

i was unaware of any fuel leak when using the regular manifold. you are correct no one ever mentioned that anywhere about that sort of thing. i can only imagine that happened to you the first time haha. i dont think that was covered in your build thread dude. im open to any suggestions and advice of course

 

from what i can gather a lot of people use a bosch 044. but that always seems to be for super high powered builds. if i could get to 180bhp i would be chuffed to bits for my first ever engine build!

 

so i guess my next course of action would be to find some vag pistons from somewhere (confident that wont take long) and then strip the engine down and see about fitting them