Recommendations

[smithyandco]

Well it seems I've been left behind in the Graphics Card stakes... Things are little different since my last upgrade... A ATI Radeon 9800Pro 128Mb AGP 8x.

 

Now I've upgraded the PC a little...

I've gone from:

AMD Athlon XP 2600 (~1.9Ghz) Barton

1024MB DDR PC3200

ASUS Full ATX Gaming Motherboard (forget which one... but it had SATA-Raid capabilities as well as all the usual Socket A motherboard goodies, Gb LAN as well as 10/100 (two on board network devices) and WiFi card (for the ASUS WiFi slot - Optional extra which I got with mine) from the early days of WiFi (supported an amazing 11Mbps but back when I got it that was the dogs danglers!)

200GB PATA (IDE) HDD to boot from

Then later a 500GB SATA 3.0Gb/s (300Mb/s really...) HDD for storage

NVidia GeForce FX5700 128MB 8xAGP (just sold on ebay for £20... Something to do with Mac support...) later replaced with ATI Radeon 9800Pro

LiteOn IDE DVD+-RW with LightScribe

On board 7.1 ASUS sound

350W PSU (fine for the time...)

 

To:

HP DX2200 - PC

P4 3.0 HT 64-bit (~3.06Ghz) Skt 775

1024MB DDR2 PC6400 (only two slots on board support max of 2GB)

HP DX2200 MiniATX Mother Board (complete with PCI-E 16x and 1x), 2x SATA, 1x PATA and 0x Floppy (No floppy support other than USB Floppy)

Booting from 80GB SATA 3.0Gb/s (again 300Mb/s really...)

And 200GB PATA and 500GB SATA added for extra space.

On board ATI Express 200 (Shared memory... currently 128MbLiteOn DVD-ROM (HP branded) in Navy like the case... (now replaced with the LiteOn DVD+-RW as above with the beige front panel replaced with the Navy panel... Very lucky that the LiteOn casings were exact apart from colour!!)

On board Realtec "HD" sound

250W PSU (energy saving but shite! - It's struggling with the current load it has!)

 

I have also got another PC (a donor)

P4 3.2 HT unsure of socket. (I'm assuming 64-Bit... could be 32-Bit)

1024Mb DDR2 PC6400 (4 slots on board with support for 8GB)

Fujitsu Siemens Standard ATX board with 4x SATA, 2x IDE, 1x Floppy. PCI-E 16x and 1x plus many more PCI slots that the 2 on HP board (Intel Chipset) GB LAN (1000/100/10)

on board card of some description (not yet looked)

No sound (have a few SB Live! 5.1 Digitals hanging around... good enough sound cards! )

160GB 3.0Gb/s HDD (again... 300)

350W PSU (fine for office... not fine for gaming)

 

Now if the Siemens board is an LGA 775 like the HP then I'd assume 775 Dual(Duo)/Quad/Xeon support will probably be a firmware/bios update away.

And as the board is more feature packed this will be the base for my build.

If it's not an LGA 775 board or has no support for Core2Duo/Quads/Xeons then the HP MiniATX board will be the base as that has full support for anything 775.

 

 

The case to the Siemens is a Siemens OEM case which only supports it's own PSUs (will not fit a better PSU)

So the case will be changed with a Generic Budget PC case with Generic Budget 500W (or Foxconn Budget case with Foxconn budget 450W PSU)

The HP case is a MiniATX case with support for it's own board only.

 

I'll probably end up using the 160GB SATA HDD to boot from with the 200GB as a backup drive and the 500 for storage.

And sticking 2Gb total if using the Siemens board... stick with 1Gb until I can afford 2x 1Gb sticks if using the HP board

 

 

What else would you recommend? or do you know of any budget yet decent cases (with 500W+ PSU)

 

 

Now graphics cards:

More of an ATI fan but NVidia have PhysX...

PCI-E 16x 2.0... Should I be worrying about the "2.0"? or will any 16x card suit?

 

Uses:

Mainly internet, work but with added HD content (720p for now but 1080p ready required for future - prefer DVI and HDMI outputs - DVI must support DVI->VGA adaptor for now) and some gaming... Not mega fussed about running things on medium settings.

 

Will be using XP Pro SP3 or Media Center 2005

 

The budget:

£80 (£90 at a push) for both the case and graphics card.

 

So what can you guys recommend?

 

So far... I'm thinking the following:

http://www.misco.co.uk/applications/Search...965&CatId=0

 

and

 

http://www.misco.co.uk/applications/Search...761&CatId=0

[Stu]

Just get the best one you can afford. You're looking at budget-medium quality cards for that kind of money so don't expect miracles. I would be checking out sites like Toms Hardware Guide, HardOCP and Trusted Reviews for comparative reviews in your price range.

 

Also, you mention "300MB/sec" for your HD's. You'll probably find realistically you're not seeing more than 50-60MB/sec from a single SATA HD, whether it's SATA150 or 300, unless it's a Raptor or SSD. Just FYI.

Edited September 28, 2009 by Stu

[smithyandco]

Just get the best one you can afford. You're looking at budget-medium quality cards for that kind of money so don't expect miracles. I would be checking out sites like Toms Hardware Guide, HardOCP and Trusted Reviews for comparative reviews in your price range.

 

Also, you mention "300MB/sec" for your HD's. You'll probably find realistically you're not seeing more than 50-60MB/sec from a single SATA HD, whether it's SATA150 or 300, unless it's a Raptor or SSD. Just FYI.

You say the best you can afford... But to be honest I'm unsure of the best for my budget.

I could spend £60 on a card and find a better performing one for £35... I'm not expecting miracles. Just something that will provide full support for 1080p and play games like GTA-SA, Battlefield in medium-High settings and games as good as Crysis in lower settings.

 

I'll be happy if it can pump out a game like Crysis in 1440x900 at medium settings.

 

I've had a look at reviews but I can't make sense of them anymore... I was a gaming PC whizz but was left behind upon PCI-E.

 

 

As far as HDD speed I know realistically none will reach the 300Mb/s quoted on them but they are an improvement over P-ATA133 and that's the only importance to me.

I was only quoting the speed as the HDD marketing that came with these drives make a song and dance about the 3.0Gb/s SATA interface support... Yet their quoted peak transfer rate is 300Mb/s each.

Even speed testing has shown that the drives perform near exactly the same transfer speed wise on the 3.0Gb/s SATA ports on the HP and Siemens boards as they do on the 1.5Gb/s SATA ports on the ASUS Skt A board...

The only advantage of 3.0Gb/s over 1.5Gb/s is really only future proofing... just incase a SSD comes out with those speeds. (I mean actual speeds... not quoted speeds).

[JC]

Geforce GTS 250 ~£80 IIRC, what I was recomemended and very happy with it, does all I want, and I play quite a few games and it seems happy with things like NFS Shift put all on max

[eetaylog]

if you want to run HD content and use it for gaming, id be looking more at upgrading your processor.

 

As for graphics cards, i have the Geforce 7600GS which is getting pretty dated now as it only has 256Mb of RAM and doesnt have HDMI out, but i have no complaints and its probably within your budget. it runs HD content and it hasnt struggled under a gaming load so far.

 

Ive heard good things about the above (Geforce GTS 250) but ive not seen it anywhere for that price, id expect it to be anywhere from £100+

[Stu]

There's not much point in having HDMI out if you're not transporting audio over it. DVI is adequate for video, which is why most video cards have the interface.

[eetaylog]

There's not much point in having HDMI out if you're not transporting audio over it. DVI is adequate for video, which is why most video cards have the interface.

 

You speak true. Thats how i ended up running my htpc, with DVI between graphics card and tv, and a seperate audio out to an amplifier and then onto speakers.

[smithyandco]

if you want to run HD content and use it for gaming, id be looking more at upgrading your processor.

 

As for graphics cards, i have the Geforce 7600GS which is getting pretty dated now as it only has 256Mb of RAM and doesnt have HDMI out, but i have no complaints and its probably within your budget. it runs HD content and it hasnt struggled under a gaming load so far.

 

Ive heard good things about the above (Geforce GTS 250) but ive not seen it anywhere for that price, id expect it to be anywhere from £100+

That's a future plan... hence checking the Siemens board is a 775

I may be able to get hold of a free 775 quad core or two...

The 3.2 P4 should cope with HD content for now... And is certainly way more than fine for the level of gaming I plan on doing.

 

The graphics card/case situation is the high priority at the minute.

 

 

There's not much point in having HDMI out if you're not transporting audio over it. DVI is adequate for video, which is why most video cards have the interface.

HDMI for future plans... If HDMI isn't available on a decent card within my price range then I'll work around it.

 

 

 

I'm only after card / case recommendations guys... not a let's slate the plans or argue the toss thread

 

Finding a compatible case is proving difficult... The HSF setup for both boards requires the heatsink to be screwed to the case via holes in the boards.

Now I could get a plate for the back of the board so the HSF are strapped to the board instead of the case but this will put unneeded stress on the board.

I've only found a handful of compatible cases so far and they are out of the price range.

[Stu]

HDMI for future plans... If HDMI isn't available on a decent card within my price range then I'll work around it.

 

You're missing my point. Unless you have a very specific reason for HDMI (eg, HDCP ) then there is no need to restrict yourself to very few cards which actually have this connector on the back. The reason video cards have DVI and not HDMI is because video cards do not transport audio so there is no need for HDMI. You use a DVI<>HDMI cable/converter if you want to plug into a HDMI TV or whatever. The video signal is the same (apart from HDCP mainly), just a different connector.

[smithyandco]

You're missing my point. Unless you have a very specific reason for HDMI (eg, HDCP ) then there is no need to restrict yourself to very few cards which actually have this connector on the back. The reason video cards have DVI and not HDMI is because video cards do not transport audio so there is no need for HDMI. You use a DVI<>HDMI cable/converter if you want to plug into a HDMI TV or whatever. The video signal is the same (apart from HDCP mainly), just a different connector.

My plans are to run this as my main PC for now but later run it through DVI and HDMI at the same time later on.

I could do this via a duel DVI... And research suggests that DVI can provide HDCP compatibility on certain cards.

 

But like I said in the first post I'd "Prefer" a hdmi slot... But I will work around it if something better comes along without HDMI within budjet.

So there is no restriction as such... just a preference.

[smithyandco]

Well I've changed the plan slightly...

I've kept the small DX2200 case (it's just big enough for what I wanted)

 

And I've added an iCute 450W (semi-budget) PSU and a Nvidia GeForce 9600+ 1GB GDDR2

With VGA, DVI and HDMI... Plus it's HDCP compatible.

With onboard PhysX chipset

 

Just installing the drivers now

 

I'll let you all know what I think when it's done!

[LiamGTR]

Don't want to sort my laptop out do you? It's running like a Fcuking bag o'bolts! I've done 2 fresh installs using the recovery discs and it makes no difference!

[smithyandco]

Don't want to sort my laptop out do you? It's running like a Fcuking bag o'bolts! I've done 2 fresh installs using the recovery discs and it makes no difference!

Could do but where the feck is South Shields?

 

The 9600+ (9600 GSO) is performing well. HD 1080p plays well.

Struggling with 720p via shockwave/flash (Youtube/iPlayer for example) but I'm assuming that's cpu related.

Looking for a Intel Pentium D 925 (2x 3.06ghz) duel core... highest 800Mhz FSB Skt775 CPU if I'm correct

[eetaylog]

Don't want to sort my laptop out do you? It's running like a Fcuking bag o'bolts! I've done 2 fresh installs using the recovery discs and it makes no difference!

Could do but where the feck is South Shields?

 

The 9600+ (9600 GSO) is performing well. HD 1080p plays well.

Struggling with 720p via shockwave/flash (Youtube/iPlayer for example) but I'm assuming that's cpu related.

Looking for a Intel Pentium D 925 (2x 3.06ghz) duel core... highest 800Mhz FSB Skt775 CPU if I'm correct

 

Idve thought so. Id avoid the pentium D if i were you (unless you can locate a cheap one), intel hadnt sorted out the problem of them running hot when they released it. A core2duo would be a much better option as they run faster and cooler, and as a bonus they run off socket 775 as well so no need to change your mobo.

 

good choice of gfx card btw

Edited September 30, 2009 by eetaylog

[smithyandco]

Idve thought so. Id avoid the pentium D if i were you (unless you can locate a cheap one), intel hadnt sorted out the problem of them running hot when they released it. A core2duo would be a much better option as they run faster and cooler, and as a bonus they run off socket 775 as well so no need to change your mobo.

 

good choice of gfx card btw

Most decent Core2Duos require a higher FSB than 800Mhz... Which is my limit for this board. (And I'm not changing the board)

Although Pentium D's go as far as a 965 with 800Mhz FSB (Researched it and found I was wrong about the 925 being the best 800Mhz FSB cpu).

The 965 is a 3.7Ghz Duel Core...

 

HP won't assure me that there is or ever will be support for Core2Duo via my board (No news of BIOS updates)... And said my board supports a max of the 925 (But that was the best 800Mhz FSB cpu at the time of the PCs original build).

 

What I might do is try and borrow a 800Mhz FSB LGA775 Core2Duo from my usually freebie source and see if that works... If so then I'll look out for a decent Core2Duo... Maybe a 3.4Ghz

If not then Pentium D will have to do!

 

Besides any Pentium D will be better than a single core 3.06Ghz Pentium 4 HT (HT= pretends to be a duel core... although it helps... a little)