Renovating wiring loom

[Stu]

MikeyRS is exactly right.

[shawdreamer]

MikeyRS is exactly right.

 

 

Ive never came across an instance of solder brittleness in my 11yrs of dealing with soldered fitting pipework rated for high pressure water, oil and gas/steam (maybe Ive been lucky ) and generally the company I work for will more or less guarantee a copper installation for anywhere upto 25yrs (which in modern building terms is often longer than the buildings rated usage lifespan).

 

Granted the solder used in our installations could likely be of a more sturdy variety but I cant imagine the difference being that great as its also rated for electronics?, ontop of that Id have thought its lifespan would be greater than the likely lifespan of the vehicle itself?

Edited January 4, 2013 by shawdreamer

[Stu]

Irrelevant.

[MikeyRS]

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m27/MikeyRS_2006/DSC_0222.jpg

 

This is the connector, not the best pix. This is what manufacturers use.

 

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m27/MikeyRS_2006/DSC_0223.jpg

 

This shows the repair kit i mentioned earlier, with sizes listed

 

Not saying soldering shouldnt be used, just there are newer ways to fix wiring looms. can easily be seen by the way manufacturers make looms nowadays.

[demented]

No, I'm exactly right !

[Stu]

No, I'm exactly right !

 

No, you're demented. :-)

[demented]

Yes, I am Demented.

 

However, whether solder joints become brittle or not, especially in and around the engine, it's an issue I've never experience.

 

The in line straight connector shown in the photo, I've never seen such a connector before, or come across one when

working on vehicle wiring.

 

It looks like some kind of crimped terminal and as long as crimped sufficiently, Ideally with a crimping tool

one specifically designed for such connectors, which is probably expensive, I can't see any reason why that type/style of connector cant be used.

[Stu]

That's not surprising if you've only been doing stuff one way for 20 years!

[demented]

I can guarantee I have damn sight more expertise than you may ever realise Stu.

 

Stu, I can't help but feel you love to wind people up and are quite arrogant, you have to have the last comment.

Yet from what I see of your post, you love to contradict and rock the boat for the sake of it.

 

Stu, I only use you user name to avoid any confusion.

 

I've carried out all kinds auto electrical repairs and installations on nearly every vehicle manufacturer there is, cars, vans, commercial vehicles and even motorcycles, on many occasion I've stripped back existing wiring, either to replace, repair or tap into and I have never seen a crimped terminal as the one featured in the photo.

 

As your so knowledgable, why didn't you come forward with the name and description of the terminal, when MikeyRS first mentioned it, prior to uploading the photo ?

 

 

Soldered wire joints in vehicle wiring looms, whether in and around the engine or anywhere else, is more than adequate, although it may appear more professional if such a joint is covered by heat shrink tubing, it's more than adequate that the bare soldered joint is covered by insulation tape and then the repaired section is grouped with existing wires and wrapped in insulation tape and a wiring loom created.

[Stu]

I'm not being arrogant, but I don't accept that someone is doing something right just because they've been doing it a long time. I've come across plenty of people who have been doing stuff wrong for many years and most are ignorant of it and stuck in their ways. I'm not suggesting this is you, however from what you've repeatedly said you claim that there are no problems with soldering because of what you have seen and that you have 'more expertise' than I could ever imagine.

 

How about the fact i've got dozens of test rigs around me at work which do durability testing on stuff like this which highlight the problems and some very well qualified engineers who recommend against using solder joints in cars? I'm not a metallurgist, so I won't claim to know the ins and the outs.

 

All i've said in this thread is that what MikeyRS said was correct, and it is. I've been told it by qualified engineers, even WRC loom builders. I'm happy to share that insight. You may or may not see any value in it, but hopefully someone will.

[demented]

It may surprise you Stu, but with a response like that, I would see a lot of value in your replies and comments, as it's a genuine explanation which has substance, rather than, what appears to be your normal, I know it all, flippant, one word or short sentence comments, without an explanation.

 

However, regardless of the test rigs you have at your disposal, I believe you are taking this issue regarding brittle solder joints far too serious.

 

If solder joints become brittle to such an extent, why is solder used extensively on all auto electrical safety circuits, such as ABS, airbag systems ?

 

Why do all Thatcham Insurance Approved Security Systems state within the installation booklet that all connections must be soldered ?

 

If the issue of brittle solder isvso apparent, solder wouldn't be safe to use!

 

Stu, my response was not to your comment in regard to MikeyRS being right,  it was to you belittling my technique, one which I have used very successfully over 20 years, especially in my own vehicles, without any issues ever occurring as a result. 

 

If this was a professional race car or jet fighter builders forum, I could understand you questioning such an technique, however, if it was such a forum, due to industries standards, I would never of suggested such a method.

 

I explained, that although I've never seen the type of terminal MikeyRS posted a photo of, I said there is no reason as to why such a terminal cant be used, and thats the opinion from a qualified engineer.

 

 

My post to this forum takes into consideration that not all members are professional race car builders or specialist, some are maybe, DIY mechanics or members just trying to fix a problem as cheap as possible, some without deep pockets to buy the best and most expensive equipment and tools available, therefore, with that in mind, I offered a solution that is tried and tested, used widely, by myself and by many auto electrical installer associates and colleagues, for many years and without issues.

 

I never attempted to belittle of dismiss anyone's view or opinion, after all, it's the OP who decides which is their prefer method.

[cherrybeard]

Thanks for the replies/help/arguments, all appreciated.

 

Just to update, I have found lots of compromised insulation all over the injector loom so really I need a replacement or make one up from scratch.

In trying to get the pins out of the injector connectors I have found that you need some really thin, thin bladed tools to get the locking tabs to release the pins. Not only this, you need two at the same time (top and bottom of the pin) and sometimes the pin just won't release whatever I try - so I resort to what I normally do in this situation and smash the damn thing apart to find out how it works (shamefully). Unfortunately the plastic housings are so old and brittle now that even with the correct tools, they break and bend far too easily so I am trying to source new connectors, pins and wires. I have only got as far as sourcing the bosch injector connectors (ev1, roughly £4 each) and a TPS connector. Luckily the 16 pin connector which connects to the rest of the loom is easily disassembled and the pins removed with no damage so I will keep this one. I haven't got as far as trying the other connectors on the loom yet.

 

I called Ford and as feckin usual (Rayleigh Weir Ford) they are utterly useless. They deny all knowledge of loom repair kits, will not sell connectors separately, try to rip me off for more than £400 for a new loom......cocks. So the search is on for connectors, matching pins and plenty of different coloured wires.

 

p.s. anyone using Haynes to work out what/which/where wires are routed will find that the SEFI diagrams are wildly different to real life. Or at least, my loom only matches half the information given so you may be lucky. It at least gave me a heads up as to how 12v is shared and supplied to all the sensors and how the info makes its way back to the ecu.

[Stu]

For what it's worth I don't think the dealer was lying to you. Ford rarely do repair or DIY kits, it's not worth the hassle.

[cherrybeard]

Could be that I only ever get to speak with them by phone, bypassing the opportunity for a more 'matey' chat!

[MikeyRS]

I find that with ford too. Parts dept are useless.

 

If you want the repair kits, as shown above, repair connectors (not loom connectors) and heat shrink, you can order them through my company.